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Someone asked Rawat this question in my 'Rejoice' Knowledge review in 1987, and even though the same question occurred to me at the time, I can't remember Rawat's answer! I think it wasn't satisfactory, but my 'whatever Maharaji does must be right' filter pushed the question away and I accepted the new rules.John.
Modified by JHB at Wed, Oct 18, 2006, 05:58:36
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I propose the eyeball squeezing change was the result of a lawsuit and some premie somewhere damaged his eyes and it was a CYA change I think both constantly remembering holy name ( ie seems a lot like brainwashing and could be lawsuit fodder ) and nectar ( someone damaged their tongue, breathing, choked ) I suspect strongly thats why. No proof.
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... no-one has realised God yet. You can't do that without remembering holy name constantly. That was why it was one of the five commandments. I mean what is the point of a holy name you just take a peek at now and again? Constant. That was what the fellow David Smith travelled around advocating.
Maybe the road from Lord of the Universe to inspirational speaker is paved with law-suits?
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Maybe the road from Lord of the Universe to inspirational speaker is paved with law-suits? Yes.
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Susan, The eyeball squeezing stopped (for us northeast U.S. premies anyway) around 1977 or 78. Initiators came around to communities to give us reviews and made the light tech adjustment then to just placing the fingers lightly on the eyes, and no squeezing. I don't know what went on around the rest of the world though. You're probably right about the CYA thing though. My speculation about the instructions not to try meditating on holy name 24/7 is that it was around the time Rawat dropped the "guru' from the "Maharaji" in his name, and was putting lots of effort into westernizing his cult for propagation. Gee! It really did wonders, didn't it? Most of the premies have left since the 80s. What a brilliant mind Rawat has, eh? All of his ideas have worked out so well over his 40 years of multi-phased propagation schemes. He can't beat people way from his door looking for total enlightment and the ultimate experience of peace.
Modified by Cynthia at Wed, Oct 18, 2006, 15:11:27
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Hi Chuck, I would like to know the answer myself, if there is one available. From my memory, I don't remember any explanation was ever given. There were knowledge revisions where in a very controlled environment, full of paranoid security premies - I was one a few times- the "new" way of doing the techniques were shown. I remember one revision where m talked and, I think - the fogg attacks me at times still- it was some place in Illinois, USA. Pretty much as far as I remember, and if I'm wrong I would appreciate if someone corrects me so I can continue to put the "puzzle's pieces" together, a camera pointed at him and m show how to make each technique, exiting the room right after , leaving premies meditating on their own. I think there was one in Canada also, one I went to, but the "fogg" in that section of my life is quiet large, or maybe is that I do not want to remember. It is difficult at times to look back and see how many areas of your life got negatively affected, specially when one has children. I remember he would say very often, for years, something like, be prepared for changes; never doubt the master, and many other more hidden mental orders we received, by his disgrace. LOL, now. What a trip! Chuck, I enjoy reading your posts and your perspective of how the black magician captured our hearts/spirit. Stay around a little longer if you can. Right! Responding to what you wrote in another post, Be your own magician. Wink. Conquer your SELF and then, you won the game. I will not be shy anymore expressing what I feel. The ones who do not like it they need to understand, in the same way they expect others to understand them. Did you ever read "YOUR PERFECT RIGHT"? You may have noticed and maybe you didn't, some of us feel gagged here. There are so many mechanisms in play. We do the best we can, I guess. The Atheists want it their way, the Agnostics are probably just reading and those like us who have grasped "something", feel attacked. My ideas are being attacked. I will not give my permission EVER again to anyone wanting to dominate my life/ideas, feelings/experiences. First, I think, then, I am. Should I have to say again, sorry for thinking? Once was enough for me. Please, keep sharing your thougths! You are helping me. There are no victims, but volunteers, after one has broken the spell. I have no intention to hurt anyone's feelings. Peace
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Thanks again for kind words, AXIS--I think of the old Hendrix tune, Axis boldaslove. I remember he would say very often, for years, something like, be prepared for changes; M did talk about 'evolution' and stuff when I was around, but looking back I see the warning signs that changes weren't organic but manipulative. Fogg is there for me, but I can look at and mostly into most of it; I was talking with my wife this morning about all this and we decided we were very fortunate to have been in a family way when we met M, so never sucked in body and soul as so many. I think that's why I have mostly good memories and gratitude (?) because the positive side of M's world helped me, and I was not in the position so many were of being victimized seriously by the negative side of M and premiedom. It's amazing now to reflect on how many CLEAR signs we overlooked: just all the premies griping about...other premies, the organization, etc. How did we not ASK how the LOTU could be such a bad administrator? Keep the planets wheeling, but can't keep a charity project running for more than a few months? You may have noticed and maybe you didn't, some of us feel gagged here. There are so many mechanisms in play. I've picked up hints--mostly in the fact that I'm choosing my words and self-revelations rather carefully; I have been 'attacked' so often by so many that I sort of expect it now, keep cards close. Also I am not qualified to 'propagate' anything, only to live best I can in the space I take up. Like many of us I came at the whole thing from a 70s peace/love/trip-out perspective, all of which M seemed to answer. The revelation that M's world is NOT infinite didn't invalidate the quest--the HOW TO questions--that took me in and through that world. In fact, my experience there confirmed (what I posted elsewhere in one of my long replies to a reply to a reply) both that there's a reality behind the 'g' word, and that there's a lot of trash to sort through to get to the clean reality. Never sorry for thinking. Even Jesus said it: be harmless as doves and cunning as serpents. I.e., be men and women of peace and understand the mind of the enemy. Keep on honing, and keep on hoping. Yeah, I feel it: 'it's inside you'.
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One time passing through darshan the look in his face, the only time we look into each other's eyes, I saw EVIL. Sure, premie's "magical" thinking can think, well, he knew who you were and what you were going to do, I say, NO to that. I deny TOTALLY his so called "power". IMHO, m is no good. Well, maybe he is pcychic and read my thoughts, his feet stank really badly. I know now, so many situations where I was close to him, now I see, m feared me, because I had blind devotion toward him but he could could see the doubts shown on my face. One of the Long Beach, CA. event was my last one. Daya, m's daughter singing on the stage, something so very weird to comprehend now, as it was being there, witnessing the madness. m's daughter, the youngest, moving in a seductive way looking at this "father" sitting in his throne, looking extremelly tense at times. One question. You never felt LOVE for anyone or anything before crossing path with m? I think we gave him too much credit for what we felt. It took me a long time to understand that part. Keep on honing, and keep on hoping...YES! Anyway, I must go now. Thanks.
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One question. You never felt LOVE for anyone or anything before crossing path with m? I think we gave him too much credit for what we felt. It took me a long time to understand that part. I may have said or implied something like that here--I didn't mean to. As a kid--by six or seven years old--I was so screwed up that I think all my love was mixed with fear for many years. M was definitely NOT the source of my understanding that love can be clean and good--that anything worthy of the name has to pull us past selfishness--but weird as it sounds to me now the whole trip was definitely a step in the right direction for me. 'That love is in you' and the story about the musk deer with the scent gland in its breast...somehow I kept the idea that M in all his radiance was showing me what I was supposed to be... So I am in the ambiguous place of having benefitted from my association with a bad guy. The fear and lies and evil that he worked on so many of us, I didn't get the full blast in person. I am sad to read so many journeys of those whose experiences emptied them; I would still like to say to them -- tho I have no right to -- that that love they thought was in M was and still is in them. Here's something from an archive, from a 'Patrick' replying to a 'Cynthia': It is for us to turn our frustrations and vengeful feelings to our advantage. To dedicate ourselves with renewed vigour to truthfulness and to Life itself, to take courage in our convictions and to live our own lives with complete integrity. Well, I guess I should be working for a living Chuck
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He used our own experiences to colour his concoction and make it presentable to the west, our own realizations from the 60's were fed back to us with the idea that we didn't know what to do with them but he did.
Our own speaking and writing skills were fed back to us and used to propagate his message, which for all I can make out now, was, that he was the god we sought.
Our own hippie friends were used to give satsang to their parents, cleaned up and sent out like J's Witnesses to sell this idea to the masses.
Sorry, I don't want to make myself too depressed, I 'll have to continue this list later.
Lp
Modified by saph at Thu, Oct 19, 2006, 12:43:13
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You don't sound depressed. It is the truth. I give praises to that infinite caring LOVE so common to the whole human race, and so strange to some, because I witnessed an incredible miracle. I asked here last night for people to pray for my mother, in fact, I asked every "believer" I know. I got on the phone, all kind of churches where contacted and in about 1 hour, after theirs/my faith called, the POWER of LOVE answered!! Almighty TRUTH. Maybe some day I share with you what the miracle is, no time now. Rejoice in life dear friend. enjoy the strange characters in my page...hahahahaha... I'm looking for a photo to share with you...maybe I cannot find it yet because you alread saw it. 
Modified by Axis at Thu, Oct 19, 2006, 12:06:54
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Hi Axis, My best wishes to you and yours,
"enjoy the strange characters in my page"
I do, and the strange characters in other pages too, 
"I cannot find it yet because you already saw it".
Now that is pure Zen, I really enjoy your posts..Axis.
Modified by saph at Thu, Oct 19, 2006, 13:53:11
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ZEN rocks! Why love one religion when you can learn something from all of them? Quote from Patrick Heally, the guy who got his head smashed by two of m's mahatmas in the 70s. He is a little strange but pure ZEN. I learned lots from him too. After he asked me to post something here a while back, his home was vandalized and tons of things stolen from his home. Shame to the negative power "they" possess, I say.
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Hi Axis, Quote from Patrick Heally, the guy who got his head smashed by two of m's mahatmas in the 70s. He is a little strange but pure ZEN. I learned lots from him too. After he asked me to post something here a while back, his home was vandalized and tons of things stolen from his home. Shame to the negative power "they" possess, I say. Is there any proof that premies broke into Pat's home or is this your speculation only? When did this happen?
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NO! You do not comprehend, I cannot discuss this with you. Sorry. I said something different but hey, you do not believe in anything anyway, so, what do you know about negative power and its work? Let me in peace. Take a brake, is your need, I think.
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When people use all-capital letters on the internet it's means they are shouting. I wasn't being negative towards you, I asked you a question about Pat because I don't remember when his house was broken into. I don't think I deserve the level of anger you are directing to me. Cynthia
Modified by Cynthia at Sat, Oct 21, 2006, 04:41:33
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I don't think Rawat borrowed those things because he wasn't planning on giving them back to us! lol! He definitely didn't borrow our money, that's for sure. He tried to steal our minds, hearts, souls, mental health, and bodies. The Knowledge vow sounded like it was for keeps. Captain Rawat doesn't borrow, he takes.
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I decided to keep in the flow of headings. Of course he did not borrow, this is a euphemism. As you say, he just took, or rather he talked us into handing everything over, with the biggest bunch of fibs and whoppers ever told in the Western Hemisphere.
But since, we have now taken these assets back, somewhat well worn and twice shy, the superficial effect is of borrowing. But of course we who live our lives know better.
They have been regained with challenging and often painful inner struggle and "soul" searching regard for the "truth".
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Thanks for correcting the error.
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Not error Axis, a (or an) euphemism is a word or phrase which is a scaled down version of what we meant. A less offensive word substituted for one which might cause offense, just a lighter form of expression. No correction needed. And we got them back, albeit damaged, nor returned graciously or apologetically by him.
(Like we had to go into our "neighbours" shed and take back the lawn mower he "borrowed" and did not return, and obviously did not intend to return, ever?)
No, that doesn't really work. Let's face it he took them, he never borrowed them. He took them and we took them back, and if any one has a problem with that, I'd like them to clearly and honestly and unemotionally explain.
And let's be clear, we are talking about our love, our brains, our voices, our minds and our vision, and so many other precious aspects of our life itself, not a lawnmower, although grass anologies come to mind.
Lp
Modified by saph at Fri, Oct 20, 2006, 04:14:36
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'praises to that infinite caring LOVE so common to the whole human race' thanks for that Axis. ... know what you mean (I prayed ...bet we all did) Tim
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I found this in an old post after googling 'charanand'. The change in techniques may have had other motivations, but the lack of explanation is pretty well accounted for here: One of the most difficult things about CR's cult was the way in which he implemented changes. He intentionally changed courses in his ''mission'' in order to keep everyone under his control. I experienced great pain and suffering whenever he switched directions (which was often). His contradictions always had to be rationalized, yet I wasn't supposed to be in my mind. That left me and I'm sure many other premies in a state of confusion, while we lived our lives as devotees of a liar.http://www.ex-premie.org/best/CR%20liar%20of%20liars.htm#P_1AK2 How could I have reconciled all of this? I dissociated. I tried so hard to keep up with CR's ever changing rules, his contradictions, his ability to keep me from thinking for myself and, most important, his creepily clever schemes which kept all of the premies in a constant flux, never able to question, doubt, or look at our lives as OUR LIVES. We didn't live rational lives. I know I didn't. We lived for him and him alone. We were told not to think, but it was okay to judge eachother ... The writer in 2001 was Cynthia, dont' know if it's our Cynthia or not. And here's something from Patrick, responding to C: It is for us to turn our frustrations and vengeful feelings to our advantage. To dedicate ourselves with renewed vigour to truthfulness and to Life itself, to take courage in our convictions and to live our own lives with complete integrity.
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It is for us to turn our frustrations and vengeful feelings to our advantage. To dedicate ourselves with renewed vigour to truthfulness and to Life itself, to take courage in our convictions and to live our own lives with complete integrity. I will post to you better when I get to do what is at this time the most important: I must care for my mother in her moment of need. Best regards, A Â
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