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Kabir, That is fascinating. I wonder how much money you spent doing all of that! I don't think Rawat wore Mala in 1976. I think he wore it first in Philadelphia in 1978. Can you look back at your records? Thanks for posting it. I went to a lot of the same places between 1975-1979...My first live in person Rawat event was Holi in 1975 in Miami. First the Holi held at Cape Florida at tip of Key Biscayne...smallest Holi I attended. Then a program at Miami Edison Senior High... No foot kissing opportunity until Nov 1975 in Kissimee... Then I think I saw Rawat next Gainesville 1976, Denver 1976 Then 1977 he started on the REVIVAL LOTU phase...I don't know all the ones I went to. everything in Miami because I lived there but I remember traveling to Rome, Tuscon and Philadephia programs. Very interesting.
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Susan: You're probably correct on the mala issue. What I do remember was that Maharaji wore his crown in Atlantic City in 1976. I don't even want to think of the money I spent on programs. The record amount for one year spent was in 2005 which helped me to decide to leave the whole scene. kabir
Modified by Kabir at Sat, Aug 19, 2006, 17:09:41
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...and useful as a memory jog. I wonder if anyone has a British or European list of some kind. Heck,Kabir.....that's an awful lot of brainwashing you submitted yourself to but I really think that even Rawat couldn't fault you on "keeping in touch" and "never delaying in attending satsang". That lot deserves a medal of some dubious kind!  Here are the words of a postcard I sent to my mum ( I have it in front of me ).I am setting it as a little competition. Berlin-Monday Dear Mum,came to see Maharaji (some things never change!)- and had a beautiful time.Lovely warm atmosphere-am spending a couple more days here to look around-my hotel is in East Berlin-then going on to see Maharaji in Madrid (he's already been to Paris- last week) then London.Probably see you in August.I'm fine + giving up my job was the best decision I've made in a long time! love Alexandra xxx Question: What year was this postcard sent? Clue: On the picture (of a wall) the caption says "DIE MAUER PICK-PICK-PICKER" ( whatever that means ?).
Modified by lexy at Sat, Aug 19, 2006, 20:19:37
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Thanks Aunt Bea but I'm pretty sure it was 1990 ( the german postmark gives a load of numbers but they don't resemble a year).What does the German say ? The pic. is of the wall being knocked down on that famous day in 1989.The East and West train system had only just been joined back together and a lot of new TV sets and washing machines were travelling on them along with the passengers.We could travel free of charge because they hadn't unified the ticketing system.You win the competition anyway as the only person to enter ! Why do you think it was 1991 ? I did go to Spain (probably Madrid) in June or July 1991.Was there also a programme there in 1990 ? aaaaargh! In a world when all that matters is "this breath ,now" I just skipped on leaving the past behind and am confused now about when anything happened in my premie life.All help reconstructing my bio. gratefully received.
Modified by lexy at Mon, Aug 21, 2006, 14:53:54
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Hi Lexy,
Wow, I just love prizes and seem to have a talent for winning contests by default. The last time I won a really spliffy bike. I was in the supermarket in the cheese section when suddenly I noticed this cool holland girl's bike in baby blue. My first reaction was, "freekin Germany! It's bad enough that they let dogs in the shops, but now they're letting people bring in their bikes too?" But then I realised that it was a sweepstakes prize for "Dämmer Light" Holland cheese. So I entered and a few weeks later was notified that I won. I'm thinking all the Germans really assumed it was just someone's bike and didn't bother to enter. It still says "Dämmer Light" on the side of the bike.
DIE MAUER PICK-PICK-PICKER
One of those grafitti type things that I never really get.
"Die Mauer" means "the wall"
"pick-pick-picker" I guess is supposed to be some attempt at English. There is a verb "picken" which means to pick, but you wouldn't normally write it like that. There is also a word "pickel" which means "zit". So I suppose the whole thing refers to chipping at the wall.
I know nothing of next to nothing of premie life in the early 90s. I moved to Germany in 1993 and have lived in what was formerly East Berlin ever since. By 1993 it wasn't anything like the way you described it and I thought that 1990 would have been too early for all of that infrastructure, so I guessed at 1991.
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......a cyber peck peck pecker on the cheek ( the kind of chaste and pure kiss one gives to an aunt). It was 1990 ,the wall had just come down and the passengers on the reunited train system all looked left to the look-out post whenever we crossed the East/West border. I stayed in an East Berlin Hotel ( organised by Elan Vital) with disgusting food but good service. The west part of the city was rather dirty , with coke tins and burger papers flying around....but nevertheless lively and quite well maintained.The east part was depressing.Once you passed one street behind the well maintained facade ( where the East German soldiers were still doing that "silly walk" way of marching around,kicking their legs right out in front ) everything was falling down, and neither grass nor flowers grew in the small parks which were dust bowls.The east german women all seemed to be wheeling a baby around and wearing those little triangular scarves on their heads. Time seemed to have stood still there.There were all kinds of impromptu stalls at the side of the road where people seemed to be trying to sell the contents of their houses as well as bits of "the wall".......obviously desperate to join the capitalist world in any way they could. However ,even though East Berlin was grim and neglected the beauty of the lay-out of the city, now made whole , with it's huge boulevards,was unmistakable and it was already obvious that it would soon rise gloriously from the ashes and become the capital once again.
Modified by lexy at Fri, Aug 25, 2006, 14:25:12
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Rawat wore the Krishna outfit and crown in Atlantic City in 1976, but I don't think he wore the mala in the states until Philadelphia in 1978, and I think the first time he "danced" was at Kissimee in November, 1978. That was the kickoff into the new LOTU/devotion-and-surrender phase of Rawat's cult. One of the drips for me were those awful "birtday parties" in Miami in 1980 and 1981 that you mention on your list. They were godawful, boring and really stupid. I recall flying from San Francisco in 1981. The very first program I refused to attend, while still living in the ashram, was the 1982 chapter of the list of really stupid and boring birthday parties in Miami.
Modified by Joe at Mon, Aug 21, 2006, 12:45:31
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The first dance was definitely before Kissimee 78 - Philadelphia rings a strong bell.
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He did wear the Khrisha Crown a long time before this..but was always fully clothed. Philly program was like my last drip moment....I remember the mala, and the frenzied reaction from the crowd. I looked around and thought "I'm in a cult" and like I said the premie next to me, who lived with me in the ashram, exclaimed she had an orgasm. I know that I when I got home it was not long after I called my mom to come get me. I believe I left a note saying I was leaving....and she came and took me home. Wish it all really had ended happily ever after that...but I was pretty shaken up and confused and lost after I left. It was many years to really recover...and lots of mistakes... But thats why the Philly being the first Mala ( at least that I saw) sticks in my mind so much. I am not sure about the dancing part. Never saw him sing, recite poems or play the flute...or get carried in that weird chariot...I think it appears to get even weirder for a while after I left.
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I remember hearing about the dancing in England, so I know it was a program I didn't attend. I know it wasn't Kissimee because I was there.
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He just sat there looking corpulent in his mala, and then we sang arti to him. But he didn't do the waddle dance.
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Never saw him sing, recite poems or play the flute...or get carried in that weird chariot...I think it appears to get even weirder for a while after I left. Count your blessings, Susan. Yes, it got extremely bizarre for at least about 5 years after that. During that period was the DECA slave camp, a couple of festivals in the Kissimmee swamp when Rawat was pulled by premies in a chariot covered in flowers while wearing a crown and a pearl mala, Rawat screamed at us at ashram meetings talking about what dregs we were and how ungrateful we were, and he talked about getting a Jonestown-like property in Florida were all the ashram premies would live. He actually said that he had located some land "south" from Kissimmee, because, I kid you not, Northern Florida was "too cold." Really, that's what he said. So, this wasn't some idle comment, he was really looking into getting the land and having us live there, or so he said. Unfortunately for him, literally about two weeks later (late November 1978 after he talked about it at Kissimee festival earlier at the ashram satang in November, 1978) the real Jonestown mass suicide happened and the living-on-the-land-with-the-lord idea Rawat was talking about was quietly canned and never mentioned again. Wonder why? I guess that's one thing premies and ex-premies can thank Jim Jones for. We didn't have to go live on Florida bug-infested swampland. The thought of it gave me the creeps even then. Rawat had really shitty timing on putting out that idea.
Modified by Joe at Wed, Aug 23, 2006, 20:47:38
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workin for the Man every nite an' day / never seemed to get one moments of peace / worrin' bout the way things might have been / Big M keeps on flying / PROUD M.keeps on rollin'/ Rollin' toot toot toot toot ...........
Modified by geo at Thu, Aug 24, 2006, 09:25:42
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When I see that chariot thing I freak. And I never saw it for real. And the swamp...scary scary. I would have probably lost it in all of that. I never coped well with the "mean" side of Rawat....I used to feel real hurt when he got that "you are all so ungrateful" satsang and I think I was exposed to a very small bit of it. But I for sure was very vulnerable to critical satsang.... Thank goodness the Mala shook me up like it did.
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Susan, good for you in following your feelings and getting out. I had many of the same feelings, but got into the "faith" thing, where you think those feelings are just your mind and you just have to redouble your effort and have more faith in Maharaji. Well, in fact, that's what he repeatedly told us to do. It was really a vicious trap. I frankly think that if there had been a Kissimee swamp festival in 1980, even I might have left sooner than I did. The 1979 festival was even worse than the first one, and Rawat unloaded on everybody at that one, not just the ashram premies. That's the festival where he said we didn't even have the right to look at him, and when Tim Gallwey freaked out and got comforted by Jim Heller in "premie assistance." Every time I think about that scene, I laugh out loud. The thought of Jim Heller giving comforting satsang to Tim Gallwey is just so funny.
Modified by Joe at Thu, Aug 24, 2006, 13:04:56
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Awww how sweet of our Jim to talk Tim Galwey down. He can draw very cool rainbows on an envelope too! I don't know what makes a person "snap" when they do. I know I feel I too stayed because of the feelings being mind trap. But who knows what "jiggled" me out of it in Philly?
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Hi Susan,
one thing that struck me about your post. You said it took many years to really recover and ... lots of mistakes .... I left in the 80s, but I can say exactly the same thing. Hopefully that is one thing that this forum can really be helpful for. Now as always, the only person who can take the step to leave the cult is each person for herself, but when they do the support and insight from hearing about other people's experiences here can perhaps help people leaving today to avoid a lot of those mistakes. Let's hope so anyway.
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I am certain as a person can be without actually going back in time had there been a forum or a support network it would have been life changing for me in a very positive way. I think it is a big part of my "motives" in checking in on the forum. I actually looked for some sort of leaving a cult help. Back then, hard to find. Apparently one of the letters I sent to a person who was found fallen behind a desk  I can't know if it would have really changed my intensely confused behavior after leaving...I can't know...but I think it might have saved me a bad marraige to a premie had I had support. Of course, much good...wonderful children....came of this...but one still wonders what if... but I think being here for people who leave is good, and it is to me, one of the most important functions of the forum and ex premie org I was VERY upset confused and lost after leaving.
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If you could simply walk away and forget about it then it would be all so easy. But for deeply involved members like myself this is clearly not so easy. There may be a big difference between sudden disillusionment that I experienced and slowly drifting away. Andries
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There is surely a difference between sudden disillusionment and drifting away, and being deeply involved brings its own horrors I am sure. At the same time, I am regularly astonished about how much I have to deal with now that I have fully acknowledged that I was a member of a cult. Perhaps that is the distinction. For me, drifting away did not deal with the images, beliefs, and assumptions that went along with participating. It was the acknowledgment that came with the conscious awareness of the truth about "the man behind the curtain" that precipitated the internal collapse and disillusionment. It does not seem to matter much that my active participation was so many years ago.There is a stark insidiousness to it all that really has my attention.
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There is a stark insidiousness to it all that really has my attention.
I hear what you say and totally agree Spark. It was many years ago that I too was deeply involved in the cult, albeit as a `fringe` premie. Nevertheless, the influence was very deep and persisted long after I technically walked away. The discovery of EPO and this forum sparked a fascinating process of slowly unravelling the learned and assumed patterns of thinking that began with participation in the cult and persisted, unconsciously, throughout an apparently normal life in society.
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I think he danced in Philly. He may only have stood up and wiggled around a bit to the music before he left the stage, but I remember that he gave some powerfully strong "Maharaji is the Lord Ultimate-Surrender-To-Me-You-Dung-Beetles" satsang and the premies were blissed out of their brains in Philly. It was like being hypnotized by a magician or something. I think the Philly program was a dance-tease tactic to get everyone to go to Kissimmee. It was kind of like "Any premie who doesn't go to Kissimmee is real loser premie," type of thing. I certainly got jipped on my first darshan as a premie in Providence, Rhode Island. I got holy breath but had to kiss the pillow not the feet. Rawat ought to make up his mind as to whether he's the LOTU or not. What a wishy-washy guru.
Modified by Cynthia at Tue, Aug 22, 2006, 11:40:05
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Cynthia, you may be right that he wiggled a bit, but I recall we all commented about how incredible it was that Rawat danced for the first time at Kissimee in '78. I remember at Philadelphia, it was definitately "devotion and surrender and I am the Lord" satsang. I also recall that Durga Ji gave satsang and was many, many times even worse on the devotional crap. Marolyn should have to say hail mary's for the rest of her life to pay for the damage she did that day to a whole lot of people. The question is, did she have a clue what in the hell she was doing? She sure had nice clothes as I recall, and servants, etc. Of course, at the time, Rawat was having sex with premies, which I'm sure she didn't appreciate, and I'm sure she knew about it, too.
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Hi Kabir, That is without a doubt an amazing amount of time and money lost following this greedy mind abusing scam artist now called simply Prem Rawat ~ the inventor & self made man. The only positive spin about going to see this worthless turd, who I consider dark and evil is that I got to travel alot. I've been to India, England, Canada, and back and forth all over the United States many times before I "woke up". And this was in a span of time of only 7 years. (1972 - 1979) and yet still too long. I couldn't help but notice within your post that the practice of kissing his feet (darshame) really only happens in Amaroo nowadays. No wonders they charge so much for those worthless little tents. How sick... Prem Rawat has alot to answer for. Dance, dance, dance. Anyhow, Great Post! Hilltop
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Yes, I like to be able to say I traveled a lot, but nothing like you and Kabir....but how much did premies get to see? Its like that movie where...odd movie...Duets....this businessman wakes up and goes to a presentation and he is in the wrong city....like all the hotels and conference rooms look the same. If you were being "good" you didn't really see all the cool stuff in the place you were traveling to. It was satsang, service and meditation. I have told this story before...in Rome...I was lucky! I was under the care of "bad premies" but very GOOD PEOPLE...they broke the rules...went to Vatican...it was so cool. I wish I had seen the other sights of Rome. I know we drove by the Coliseum. But otherwise thats all I saw besides the lotus feet. I have been to Philadelphia but all I saw was the Hilton and the Convention Center...and in Tuscon I feel I saw a little as I remember having to walk in the heat and least had some small feel of what Tuscon was like. But I didn't see the Liberty Bell in Philly. Any of you sneek in sightseeing or was it just the hotel and the convention center?
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I never saw any of the cities I visited. I saw the hotels, the halls, and the highways, except when I flew. The other day I was talking to Tom about Washington, D.C. and he couldn't believe I traveled through or around DC so many times back and forth from Hartford to Miami, but I've never seen anything in D.C. Visiting the sights for church-ladies was a bit like chit-chat. Not allowed. I always did a lot of the driving because I can't sleep in a car, and all I remember is the end of each road trip: Seeing double yellow lines in my head until exhaustion and sleep finally came to me in a bed. Orlando was my first program.
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Hi Susan and Cynthia, I wanted to say hello to the both of you! I can only make like a guru and do a hit & run right now, but I'm buying a new puter soon so watch out. Dance dance dance Lol (sic humor) Best Thoughts... Hilltop
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Perhaps my exit after Philly was not as quick as I remember...I was at Tuscon too. I remember being filled with doubts that program too. Maybe it took me a little longer to act on my doubts than I thought?
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according to Kabir's promagraphy. I totally forgot but I went to Montreal too. All I remember from that is riding on a subway and that people spoke French. Also bringing back some bad memories...not your fault..of after I left and my marraige at 18 to a premie. I went to a few programs with him even though I no longer believed. I have pictures from Holi 1980 of my son Gunther (his original forum pen name- then about 4 month old) covered with Holi water. People might think it is weird for an ex to go to Holi but I went to more than one with him. And Holi,like I said, I always liked. We stayed way far back and I just let the baby get a drizzle. Then I still have pictures of us all with the Holi colors dressed in white. I find this embarrassing but its the truth. Actually, much much later in our marraige, I went with him to two more programs. One was in Palm Springs. This one I just stayed at hotel with kids while he went. I was enjoying the nice hotel until fleas....yes fleas....started biting us and wrote a letter to compain. Marriotts Las Palmas? Ring a beil? Never went to any guru stuff just played with kids at pool. Another much later one I went to was in Long Beach. I don't remember the year but I have a recollection that things had CHANGED....there were like guest performers and I want to say that maybe? the woman who sings "Love lift us up" from Officer and a Gentleman ( no I am not channeling our Irish friend) was singing there...Jennifer Warnes? Joe Cocker sings that too...I was him sing it at New Orleans Jazz Festival a few years ago it was amazing. And a better festival experience all around. Did I tell you all that year that while I was there some Jazz great died and I got to walk in a REAL New Orleans Jazz Funeral and I was not far from Dr John ( not Horton "slap" ) was a really great trip. I went on a tour where a woman talked a great deal about the threat of hurricanes....very sad. Because New Orleans is amazing place of real American Culture. Hope they can continue to rebuild. Anyway, at the Long Beach thing I was FIRMLY in exdom long term. I remember thinkings it all looking so much normal but there is still the Maharaj Ji worship in the air and in everyones faces when he talks...it creeped me out. I know of other people who consider them ex's that for all I know go to programs still. See old friends, see how weird the guru is....sort of a bizarre form of entertainment. I might do it myself but I think I might get tempted to stage a protest and get hauled out like a bongo. I also suspect I am on the "watchlist" of us ex premies were we to show up!
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I'm sure glad I never had to go to any of that crap after I left. I doubt I would have been able to stay in a relationship with somebody who was still into it. That would be very hard. Yes, Tucson Guru Puja was about a month or so before Philadelphia in 1978 as I recall. Tucson in July. Real fun. Kind of like Miami in July. I recall on the last day there was a huge thunderstorm that came through Tucson. Lots of wind and tons of rain. I also was having a hard time during that period because it was getting more devotional by the minute and some premies ranted on about it all the time in a way I could not relate, although I figured there was something wrong with me because I couldn't. There were a bunch of really derragned new initiators too, most of whom I felt sorry for and hoped I would never be selected to be one, although I did submit an initiator application, because, you know, I wanted Maharaji to run my life, after all. I wanted to surrender. But the initiators mostly seemed so lost and lonely, at least the ones who were not completely nuts. Anne Johnston was hanging out at the Chicago ashram were I lived at the time, and I REALLY felt sorry for her. She was one of the most miserable people I think I ever met. She was just so sad all the time, while blathering on about how much "love" Maharaji had given her. Buying new clothes was the only thing that seemed to cheer her up. I was in Palm Springs for the first time in my life a while back working on business, and I stayed in a hotel that had a restaurant that used to be run by Sunny Bono, long dead by that point. It was kind of a nice place, kind of an older resort type place. I recall it was November, and still hot as hell. I couldn't figure out why anyone would want to live there. Fortunately, no fleas.
Modified by Joe at Wed, Aug 23, 2006, 20:22:52
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Hi Susan, That was not a blather at all. It was a great and enjoyable read for me. I love reading your words and you have a great heart IMHO. Thank You for being here...Hilltop
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After India in 1972, which was a nightmare from the relaxed tourism pov, I decided never to go to another programme under the aegis of the' Mission' & always went independently, as did many others. I kinda 'knew' I was in a cult right from the start, but thought that only applied to other people, like those who staffed the org.
The level of organisation for those progs was simply appalling, at least from England. Cattle truck class travel; interminable queues to get in; crap food at high prices (more queues); the prospect of sharing accommodation with unknown, potentially too intense, weirdos.
It didn't cost anymore either, often less, if 7 or 8 people clubbed together to hire a van, & some of those journeys were epics of which I have fond memories.
I saw many of the sights in Rome. The Pantheon is one I'm glad I didn't miss. We went round the Coliseum, climbing over the barriers into the cordoned off bits (dangerous), wandering away from the guide in the catacombs (very dangerous) & being angrily told off. Typical premie behaviour really. We thought we were immune from the constraints which lesser folks had to put up with, being divinely protected & all. These side trips were mainly pre & post prog. During them of course, all energy was focussed on getting in, although a surprising amount of 'spacing out' could be fitted in during the gaps.
I'm sorry to say I only volunteered for full-on onsite service in the shit hole places like Essen, where there wasn't anything worth seeing.
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A bit hard on Essen that..what about the swimming pool with the wave machine? Hitch-hiking to get to Copenhagen (74) and back was a genuine adventure...I can still remember all the little odd events, people, places we stayed etc. Only £5 left and still in Groningen. Also spent time touring Rome during and after the (1980 and 81?) events, the colliseum and Vatican city were excellent. But everywhere else ....Madrid, Marbella, Dortmund, Long Beach, Miami, Los Angeles etc. it has just been travel, hotel, event and then back. Dull, dull, dull .....I remember at last year's LA Shrine event that the most notable thing (to me) was how helpful and courteous the LAPD were. They set up an ad hoc taxi rank and good-humouredly dealt with all the usual panic and impatience that a profound experience of inner peace mysteriously seems to unearth.
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CRAP !! Thanks for reminding me ,Hilltop and I went to Copenhagen and probably read and approved of every word of that ridiculous write up in the Divine Times. Seriously ....who wrote that garbage anyway?
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Hi Lexy, Your 100% right ~ it is crap! I've looked back at what Prem Rawat and what his cult had to say back in the 70's (because I happen to have the publications) and it isn't good. In almost every Prem Rawat satsang back then (I know because I've read them as I'm sure you remember too) he told us things like... The mind is the greatest enemy we can ever have in this lifetime. The mind is dark and worthless. Surrender the mind to Him. Prem Rawat has compared our minds to things like.... a tiny speck of dust, shit, rats, sucker fish, sharks that will eat you, snakes that will bite you, bulls, ants, donkeys, and ofcourse much much more. It might take me some time but I can back up this truth of Prem Rawat's horrible mind abusing words. They are that bad and sick! Best Thoughts to you Lexy... Hilltop
Modified by Hilltop at Fri, Aug 25, 2006, 03:14:08
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Prem Rawat cult talk crap. I don't know who wrote it, yet it got published just the same.
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"all the usual panic and impatience that a profound experience of inner peace mysteriously seems to unearth." I think the main "spiritual" part of K for me was travel. That's what made me "develop" as they say in new-age speak. That idea of getting myself out of my "rat hole" was powerful. I think I look back with a touch of "gratitude" even for the power of devotion that got me onto planes trains, adventures etc. I remember in Barcelona 2000, the magic of pilgrimage finally began to wear off. It became obvious to me exactly what I was doing to myself with the travel thing. Plenty of memories. That list of Progs is really impressive. Ta for that. Love Bryn
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I was planning ( didn't go) a trip to Spain a few years ago and boy...there is a LOT to see there. I think Spain would have been a good place to give in to Mr Mind a bit.
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‘I saw many of the sights in Rome. The Pantheon is one I'm glad I didn't miss. We went round the Coliseum, climbing over the barriers into the cordoned off bits (dangerous), wandering away from the guide in the catacombs (very dangerous) & being angrily told off. Typical premie behaviour really. We thought we were immune from the constraints which lesser folks had to put up with, being divinely protected & all. These side trips were mainly pre & post prog. During them of course, all energy was focussed on getting in, although a surprising amount of 'spacing out' could be fitted in during the gaps.
Yes, I agree.
I remember strolling around the old Forum in 1996, and bumping into you and the chums. You had just been up in the ruins of the old palaces up top overlooking the Circus Maximus.
I said something like: nothing much to look at, and you guys said: You should check it out, it was amazing stuff! I had blagged myself for the Event into a something like favourable seat in the hall (after about 15 years), instead of the usual back right-hand corner, by pleading poor hearing. So found myself in Special Needs beside an exceptionally attractive and pleasant German lady.
In between videos and Maharaji’s satsangs, she kept telling me about the historical crimes of the English – the American Indians and so on – while dropping her dress down to reveal one bare leg up to her knickers.
I think I must have been too much in Holy Name to accept a possible hint. I watched her vanishing at the top of the steps from the hall, staring back to me (ah, that Holy Name). I took in a sandwich and a beer at the local café on the way home, and was assailed at the counter by a negress goddess, who in long wig, and the most enticing garb, draped round me, and bought me several drinks. She said she had an hour to kill before taking a train to meet her husband back in France. Could I help her? I bottled out from taking her to my hotel opposite (it was in a problematical area), as I was afraid of some maquereau bursting into the room and threatening to slit my throat, unless I surrendered all my money and credit cards. I contemplated for a couple of hours back in the room whether this had been the advisable course, while disposing of a bottle of wine. Next day, after the final Event, I was making my way to the Spanish Steps to visit John Keats’ Museum, when, on the bus, I was approached by a beautiful lady who asked me for directions on her map. We left the bus together in a thunderstorm (she was a German premie), and had some drinks together in a café. When it died away, we climbed the Spanish Steps together, snogged each other madly at the top, then spent the next 16 hours making love together in every way we could think of in her hotel room. We still keep in touch – quite often. Yeah - it was total hell, that holiday. Sheer hell. 'I'm sorry to say I only volunteered for full-on onsite service in the shit hole places like Essen, where there wasn't anything worth seeing.' I agree fully with you on that. Essen must be the direst place in my memory. About the most catastrophic time of my life. Not much to see either.
Modified by Anthony at Wed, Aug 23, 2006, 14:21:13
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I was thinking about the earlier ones, mostly, but yeah, that one was special in all sorts of ways, very few of which had anything to do with Rawat's stage show.
Bumping into people I hadn't seen for 15 yrs & more being the main thing, which incidentally was the1st time I noticed that the old 'in the woodwork' premies had become mainstream, & that the familiar faces who one always saw in the frontline service positions, had almost entirely vanished.
I remember you from there too, not that we'd known one another previously, beyond facial recognition in satsang.
3 women falling at your feet in one long weekend, how the hell do you do it?
I recall you wearing some kind of antique nordic sweater over your capacious tum, whilst I had mine rather more elegantly covered by a linen suit, & yet not one woman in the whole city, let alone those amongst the footkissers, gave me a second look.
What happened to that woman you appeared to be with on the train from the airport. You know, the one who looked like she was on largactil.
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'I recall you wearing some kind of antique nordic sweater over your capacious tum, whilst I had mine rather more elegantly covered by a linen suit, & yet not one woman in the whole city, let alone those amongst the footkissers, gave me a second look.' I wasn't wearing a nordic sweater. Apart from the fact that this would have been totally inapplicable to the climatic circumstances, I was wearing silk shirts, a number of which of varied patterns and quite beautiful designs I had recently acquired. I wore them with quite a fetching wide-brimmed white sun-hat. I have no particular idea why I was so attractive to women at the time, but it was so. They were all over me, which was totally surprising.
'What happened to that woman you appeared to be with on the train from the airport. You know, the one who looked like she was on largactil.'
Hmm. This must be false memory, as I came with no one.
However, there was a woman who latched onto me possibly on the train - a quite beautiful long-haired premie woman travelling alone - who, when we disembarked at Rome Central - demanded that we seek hotel rooms together (perhaps not exactly together, but one didn't know). She wasn't in the slightest a largactil case, and I have no idea why you have this type of memory. No - she was one of those beautiful women one knew vaguely from about twenty years - who was keying into some possible supportive companion. She actually pissed off at the station when a preferable option arose. I encountered her later at Ally Pally 2003, and said: Hi! Do you remember me from Rome 1996, and she shook her head in disbelief and said: I don't think so. I was mildly bothered, but not too much. I didn't look at all as cool as at Rome, so could understand. However, if she is reading here now, I would like to say that I still hold her her in some regard, and if she wishes (joke) she can contact me at antoine_saintjust1792@yahoo.com">antoine_saintjust1792@yahoo.com No, I think that fate willed that at that moment I should be attractive or irresistible to women.
I had to actually shake myself away from that beautiful hooker in the cafe - deserting her, while she kept beseeching me to return to her. And then later the Germans. Ah - before that I had personally disliked Germans totally as a race. But thereafter, I decided that German women were so extremely lovely and mellifluent per se. They are so not like anything which one would inflect onto them from previous preconceptions.
But rather mellow, really lovely and understanding. The complete antithesis of Valkyries. Totally lovely, empathic and intelligent. Quite wondrous. Best wishes, Anthony
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Anthony, Lots of folks reminisce on this forum and it is all part of the process I suppose. And I understand that for some people that sexuality is an important reference in personal expression, although given the significance that abusive power relationships have to the discussions here, your posts in this thread strike me as inappropriate - and really rather creepy. But that's purely a personal judgement - what I find more notable is that you include no apparent criticism of what comes across as a remarkably nihlistic premie way of life. As I understand it you are saying that (in part at least) life as a travelling premie was fun, and certainly if your tales were those of a twenty year old I guess they could be accepted with a degree of back slapping approval. But 1996 ! - 95% of western premies were over forty by then. Surely you have something more to say about the huge collective mental, emotional and financial investment of Rawat's followers than "we had some nice weekend breaks" ? Nik
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Well, Nik, if you had read my various posts over the last few years, I think you would see that I have said a great deal about the mental, emotional and financial investment of people in Prem. In this case, I saw the post heading Holidays in Hell, and imagined people talking about generally how Events abroad had usually or very often been hellish. I actually concur that many Events had a very turbulent component (perhaps leading to some type of feeling of satori at the end). This was my own experience.
I could also list quite a largeish number - especially from the later 80s or early 90s - which were totally dreary, as they involved seating in remote corners, the mandatory Knowledge review with aching elbows, and not much to show at all from attendance. However, that particular Event I mentioned was quite remarkable, to me at least, in that it was vibrant and involved meeting some quite extraordinary people, two of whom, the German ladies, I remained in friendly and fairly fascinating (geographically distant) touch with for some years (one to this present date). I think anyone reading my posts should perceive that this was just how things occurred on this particular occasion. It's merely a truthful account of what took place in 1996. That Event sticks in my memory as quite pivotal. It was the final time within the world of Knowledge in which things behaved in a way which actually held some magic. Everything flowed quite beautifully, instead of some forced and dreary attendance in a dereriorating allegiance. And Rome chucked in some bizarre but amusing general incidents (including nice stuff like meeting Pat and the other guys). Thereafter, everything started to slowly disintegrate until I attended Nottingham 2001 and subsequently read EPO following the ludicrous 30 year retrospective Passages video. Following that, I have posted very consistently and in substantial detail about many aspects of premie life and experience, from the most metaphysical, through the general to the amusingly very human.
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This must be false memory....
.....I have no idea why you have this type of memory.
My memory is very important to me, not least because without it I could make no sense at all out of what I've done with my life to date, the mistakes I've made, & the reasons why I made them. This of course is crucial to the project of making fewer in the time that remains, so trivial though it may be, I'd like to look at our apparently differing recollections of the same event.
I hope you'll agree that the only times we met in the 70's were during the period in 1975 when I lived in the premie centre in Durham & you came there for satsang. As you didn't live in the city yourself & weren't part of that particular community, those occasions were few.
Then in 1984, shortly after I met the girl who became my wife, she took me to a graduation party thrown by a bunch of medical students. You were there because you lived next door.
Which brings us to the next, & to date last time we met, which was in Rome 1996. You're right about the hat, I'd forgotten that, & it's true that when we bumped into each other at the Forum you were wearing both it & a short sleeved shirt, but I'd be prepared to swear on the Bible that on the train you were wearing a bloody great sweater. This is something you've forgotten.
As to the woman, I did say 'appeared to be with'. How could I know the nature of your relationship to her, beyond the fact that you & she both boarded the train together & sat with myself & the other three guys, two of whom I'd arranged to meet at the airport, & the other who I'd found myself sitting next to on the plane, & who turned out to be a long lost friend.
My recollection of her is that she was quite ordinary looking, but the thing that struck me about her was that she never said one single word for the whole interminable journey, despite attempts on my part at least to make her feel included, purely out of politeness. That's why I wondered if there was something wrong with her.
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"the thing that struck me about her was that she never said one single word for the whole interminable journey, despite attempts on my part at least to make her feel included, purely out of politeness. That's why I wondered if there was something wrong with her." She was probably distracted trying to figure out how to shake Anthony off. I've laughed out loud and been highly amused by Anthony's reminiscences and banter.This is partly because I could forsee the reaction of some ,and I suspect that Anthony could as well and was deliberately being a very naughty boy. There were (and probably still are) lots of sad ,getting old premies looking for love at these events.Practising Knowledge doesn't seem very condusive to stable,long term relationships but more to loneliness. Anthony boasting about past conquests is only funny because he ( and Pat) has an amusing turn of phrase.The aloneness that may lie behind such exhibitionism is actually quite sad .
Modified by lexy at Fri, Aug 25, 2006, 11:21:45
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I was going to recommend Anth to a reliable supplier of blow-up dolls, multiple positions guaranteed. (Except I don't kno nuffink about that kind of stuff, honest officer! It was me mate who nicked the mag!) I hope Anthony was pissed or stoned when he wrote that post. He's gone very silent since the Exes' Greek chorus joined in, so probably the case, otherwise it is very sad indeed. >Anthony boasting about past conquests is only funny because he ( and Pat) has an amusing turn of phrase.The aloneness that may lie behind such exhibitionism is actually quite sad . Agreed. But yes, Pat comes out with pretty choice phrases in a free and abandoned style that I take delight in over my bedtime Ovaltine. But I wouldn't tar him with the same brush as Anthony here - though I'm sure that wasn't your intention. What's the best expression here - 'naff', 'embarrassing', 'juvenile'? 'Oh dear' will probably do...
Modified by Nigel at Sat, Aug 26, 2006, 15:13:21
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I hope Anthony was pissed or stoned when he wrote that post. He may well have been, but it's just the latest in a long line of inappropriate posts with sexual content from his keyboard. John.
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>He may well have been, but it's just the latest in a long line of inappropriate posts with sexual content from his keyboard. Hi John, I wasn't aware of that - I rarely get to read more than about 5% of posts at the moment, and I have a bit of a history of disagreeing with pretty-well anything Anthony says on this forum or the other one, re. science, evolution etc., so haven't read many of his recent contributions - but I was appalled by this one. So I wasn't making excuses for the content, just wondering how anyone could post that kind of stuff on this forum and imagine readers here would appreciate it.
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Hi, Pat, Your memories are, I think, fairly reliable, maybe as much as anyone. I have to tell you - I believe it quite possible I was wearing my pullover on the train, and possibly sweaty to boot, while also carrying a small tent lashed with my autumn coat, in the belief I may have had to seek one of the usual campsites in having booked up to things late on. The lady may have said little, I can't remember. But she was pretty good-looking. Not that I think this to be of supreme importance. I think what strikes me is that that Event seemed to throw up a sense of very early premie days, in which various people we had known or had accompanied us together over so long were now thrown together into naturalistic encounter which had been stymied or blocked for ages. There was a sense of natural ingenuous happening once more, which had been absent since DLM had been morphed into EV, with complicated paradoxes, and we were all being freed up from this once more. The fact that the lady in question latched on to an innocent communal hotel seeking on the train was quite natural, and, talking together to the hotel touts at Tremoni, or whatever the terminus is called, where she departed to a preferred proposition with a hotel swimming pool, while I found myself on a hotel floor in a fantastic room at greatly preferential rates, merely vaguely suggested that this Event wasn't going to be like other earlier dreadful ones. Yes, I did attend satsang in Durham in the early 70s, then late 70s, and this is where we knew one another (without really speaking). As for that party in 1984, it's possible we attended this together. However, this was surely not next door to me, as I have never had medical students there. But possibly a different (close?) scenario. No recollection. Of course, the best thing to do, which I would enjoy, is to get in touch when you are next in this area. However, in regard to that Event, it seems to me we were for a brief few days possibly projected out of the dismal shrouds of late EV existence back into a brief sunlight of earlier day involvement, which is why it remains in my memory (along with one or two good friends made). Maybe Rome is an inherently romantic city. In fact I think it is a very romantic city, leading to much experience which is not at all prurient, but merely humanistic and really quite innocent and to be well remembered, along with other later domestic happenings which themselves have sometimes been questionable (say, cult involvement), and many others of which are quite splendid and fulsomely ongoingly life-enhancing.
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That's what Anthony called himself here a year or so ago: An alpha dog. He's even tried to pick up exes and premies on this forum. A real classic case. I find it weird, strange, and insulting to all women that Anthony's most vivid memories of being in the cult are his sexual exploits. The way he talks it makes one think he used the cult to f**k anyone on two legs with a c**t. Any man, like Anthony, who thinks he's God's gift to women, isn't. I hope he gets regular medical check-ups.
Modified by Cynthia at Thu, Aug 24, 2006, 06:29:15
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that I introduced the use of disposable paper towels in our company bathrooms.
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Anthony, I assume that's not your real name, right? Is it possibly Ricky Gervais? I mean, come on, one rarely encounters your brand of blow-hard in the real world.
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Why do you repeatedly include sexual flirtations in your posts? Have you noticed that other people don't? Do you think this is because you are more experienced that others, or luckier than others, or more attractive than others, or is it just chemistry?Or could it be that you have some kind of problem? Just wondering. John.
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Anthony, could you please save your tales of sexual exploits, real or imagined, for the locker room? Thanks.
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GOODENTIGHT !!!!! Next day, after the final Event, I was making my way to the Spanish Steps to visit John Keats’ Museum, when, on the bus, I was approached by a beautiful lady who asked me for directions on her map. We left the bus together in a thunderstorm (she was a German premie), and had some drinks together in a café. When it died away, we climbed the Spanish Steps together, snogged each other madly at the top, then spent the next 16 hours making love together in every way we could think of in her hotel room. We still keep in touch – quite often. Yeah - it was total hell, that holiday.
Modified by geo at Fri, Aug 25, 2006, 16:27:21
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What was it, Valentines Day or something? I must say I had been thinking something a teensy bit more Ben Hur when I read about the chariot, but this is a riot! All he needs is a row of gopis on the running boards, throwing candy kisses and rainbow hearts at the adoring crowd.
Or a life. Sigh. I have to say that sometimes I feel kind of sorry for that guy. But then I think how the inside of him is a perfect mirror of the outside, and I get over it. Thanks again, Hilltop. Best, px
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If you saw that going down the street on Mardi Gras you would definitely cut back on the drinking and get some strong coffee!
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applause...perfect response!
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"Mardi Gras"= "fat Tuesday" "Maraji Gras" = "fat _____" Kabir
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He was almost there! He could have gotten them to enter it in the parade and the onlookers would have thought the outfit was just one of those costumes everyone wears... just think, he might have won a prize! Oy vey, such a lifetime of missed opportunities. Very sad. Snicker.
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Here's a float that's sure to sink. Lol and thank god I had little or nothing to do with it or him in the long run!
Modified by Hilltop at Thu, Aug 24, 2006, 23:58:34
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two differences between his costume and Mardi Gras!
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Kabir Have to say it looks a bit shallow to me. Several European progammes you didn't get to. Not quite sure that it quite qualifies as 'keeping in touch' or 'giving K a fair chance'
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Of course, you must be kidding. It is true that I missed some European programs and I've never been to India. But I did get my butt to 141 programs. kabir
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....after all that darshan you surely MUST be a realised soul Kabir. Pranam.
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A big drip was coming to the conclusion that I wasn't realized. Just older. Kabir
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" Just older." ...and poorer,I guess.
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Poorer than I would have been otherwise. I easily spent over $20,000 in today's dollars on Amaroo alone. Kabir
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...after over 30 years in the cult.$20 000 !!! Was it worth it? What was good about it? What was bad? Premies say it's very beautiful there.I've seen a few videos but never quite got the whole picture.
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I found some better.....MUCH BETTER...rates than they are offering the special needs premies
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Thanks for that Hilltop ( is that the cake on sale at Daya's ?) but Kabir's understated description further down the thread answered all my questions and sufficed to quell my curiosity. Why go to Amaroo when there's the whole of the rest of Australia ?
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that's like regretting not getting sectioned because that is what Amaroo is like - a lunatic asylum!! Power struggles, breakdowns, thefts, drunkeness and.....guru worship!
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........Kabir's version of Amaroo was very informative and measured.....but yours sounds loads more exciting.Have you been there ? I'd love to hear more of your version which makes it sound like a rogue banana (or eucalyptus) republic.
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email me via Mike F. and I'll tell you some sad s**t about that hole in the outback. Particularly what occurs when the Yanks arrive at the 'events' and take over - nervous breakdowns all round for the Oz and Euro service-hounds. Also the locals hate it even though their alcohol sales increase!!!
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I'd like to hear more about it.
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Yes, count me in! I wanna hear about the Yanks in cult compound down under. Mike has my email addy. Cynthia
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...post the s**t here where everyone can see it. Why don`tcha start a new thread Falcon? You can see there is a lot of interest in the subject.
Modified by Milarepa at Sat, Aug 26, 2006, 05:38:11
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Count me in too, I don't know what it is, but I don't want to miss anything.
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no can do here - sorry! I will send to Lexy Susan Cynthia and Jim soon
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I suppose you have your reasons, so that being the case, would you mind adding me to the list.
Thanks.
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And me? This I gotta see.
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Thanks, Kabir. A good but disturbing read. During my days of heavy involvement, you had to be in satsang, service or meditation 24/7 (with time off for sleeping, provided there wasn't a late-night phone link-up). I'm curious about the years post-1982, and the great book-burning and abolition of community satsang, darshan etc. I was a semi-premie until '86 (ie. maintaining belief in K & M, but doing nothing about it). It amazes me how some seventies premies managed to sustain an ongoing faith in a cult that rebrands itself from one decade to the next, denying its past at every stage. When I attended the '86 Birmingham England Q&A thing, it was so alien and far-removed from the original message, "The Lord is on the planet - shout it from the rooftops!", my heart gave up and brain suddenly took over. So was M still God on a secret level for you and others, for the next twenty years? Just curious. Cheers,
Nigel
Modified by Nigel at Tue, Aug 22, 2006, 12:33:33
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" It amazes me how some seventies premies managed to sustain an ongoing faith in a cult that rebrands itself from one decade to the next, denying its past at every stage. So was M still God on a secret level for you and others, for the next twenty years? " yes 
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Yes. He was God, but it was like being on automatic. A belief that I acquired in the '70's that I did not re-examine and was re-inforced by experiences I had at programs. Heck, I kissed his feet 11 months ago in Amaroo. Ironically, I began to question all this last fall when I started viewing the keys and approached them as if Maharaji was new to me. Kabir
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Ah, Kabir, but you did realize knowledge, grasshopper. You've had the greatest realization of knowledge by becoming an ex-premie. All ex-premies have realized knowledge. That's why we wonder why all those premies still glued to the feet are taking so long to catch up with us! Thx for the dates. I have a premie journal but not a log like yours, of dates, etc. Smart thinking. It helped me figure out some timelines of my own.
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Its amazing isn't it. A mere eleven months ago and he's god in disguise. How does the human mind work?! That is the interesting thing for me when I see current premies. I look at them and can see a mechanism in them that they themselves are not aware of..Ooo er. Other peoples devotion is so hard to acknowledge. They are just crazy is a much easier stance! Love Bryn
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"Other peoples devotion is so hard to acknowledge" devotion/reverence/worshipful sincerity ....whichever...... IMO it's a pity that Rawat muscles in on the sincerity of many premies. I recently attended a small,short , service (evening prayers) in one of the small side chapels of Winchester Cathedral.I am not particularly a Christian but am very familiar with the form of worship.There were about 25 people there , a mix of tourists,locals, vicars etc . I found it unshowy and quite moving.At the end I had tears in my eyes. btw for those who like that kind of thing ( history,cathedrals etc, I highly recommend a visit to Winchester which seems to have been flooded with heritage,lottery and EU money and is welcoming and quite beautiful ....there were some nice pubs too)
Modified by lexy at Thu, Aug 24, 2006, 09:12:23
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How many of them have been there? What is the travel like and how much does it cost to get there? Is it really in the middle of a very boring landscape type place in Australia? Was there a heavy push on for all to go? What was registration like? How many chose the different types of accomodations? Was there anything to chose from that WASN'T a tent? What was "Daya's" like? When did Rawat start openly smoking and drinking? Do most premies now smoke? Do they really smoke Rawat's brand? Do most premies drink? Do most premies smoke Pot? At Holi's in India are they drinking that Hashish drink? Can you do a little write up for us ex's on Amaroo experience. What is it like? Also what about people who never kissed his feet in past, how is it explained? Do they ask for Holi breath? Does he do Mala dance in Amaroo? Any Boli Shris?
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Are they freakin' kidding about those prices? Who has that kind of money? It's not just a cult, it's a cult for rich people who don't really give a tinker's damn if they are following a rich, spoilt liar, they have the REAL nollige. Crap. They must need guns to get that kind of money from people.
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It sure seems that way.All the poor premies beat theirselves up over it.What can you say Jet Age Glamour Religoin .If you are lucky you will bump in to Diane Cannon and Peter Nori-roll.HOLLYWOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hi PS, It certainly sets up a pretty strange dynamic, one where the more you spend on globe trotting the more significant you become to your fellow globe trotters. And because of that the making of money is actually a very important thing in Rawat world. There's a kind of evolution at play - those not able to keep paying, fall by the wayside leaving only the fittest (wealthiest) to form an ever more select band. Madness of course - but that's the nature of the beast. Nik
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Susan: There have been 9 major Amaroo programs, more if you count local aspirant events and donor meetings. The 10th is scheduled for next month. The trip can be grueling with the flight from Los Angeles to Australia lasting 13 to 14 hours as well as the flight from another part of the US lasting up to 6 hours. Flights presently cost at least $1600 if you are traveling from the eastern US. The landscape west of Amaroo is fairly flat pasture and farmland but pretty anyway. The program site is on a hilly area of extinct volcanos covered with trees as well as mowed grasslands. It is all very pretty. There hasn't been a heavy push for all to go there except for, if this could be called a push, very appealing video ads shown at video events starting a couple of months before Amaroo events. Registration in recent years has been done only over the internet which simplified things greatly. The smartcard is used for this which allows a registrant to enter the site with only a swipe so the whole process could be done without direct human contact. Most stayed in the cheaper tents with a few springing for the luxury (root word meaning "light"?) ones. Recently provisions have been made for premies to stay in motorhomes on the site as well as to bring their own tents. Personally, in my trips to Amaroo I never stayed on the land. I always stayed in a hotel in Brisbane and commuted. Therefore the only non-tent accomodations were the motorhomes and staying in a hotel either in Brisbane or nearby Ipswich. Daya's is a beautiful facility in a wooded area on the site. It is kept immaculately clean and the food is usually very good though I have to say the last time I was there the food was disappointing. There is a bar in Daya's as well as a sitting area where I spent my last night at my last festival hearing One Foundation sing premie golden oldies. I never saw Rawat openly smoking and drinking so I can't answer this question. I would say most premies at Amaroo didn't smoke though there were designated smoking areas in the tents in the food area. I don't know how many drank at Amaroo or at other programs. Those who went to Daya's had the opportunity to drink at the bar and even myself, who rarely drinks, had wine with many of the meals I had there. Back in 1994 when Amaroo was hardly developed there was a place where liquor was sold. I thought that this was strange at the time since weren't we supposed to be intoxicated on holy name and nectar? I don't know anything about the pot smoking habits of premies. I was never in India so I can't answer the question about the hashish drink. I will go into further details about Amaroo in future posts. I've wondered myself about those who had never previously kissed Maharaji's feet. I don't know how it is explained to them. All that is explained to the group as a whole is the announcement that darshan is to commence on a certain day at a particular time. I believe new people ask for holy breath. Several months ago I wrote here about the person who asked for holy breath during an "expressions" event at Amaroo. Maharaji gave him holy breath from the stage. Maharaji may have danced at Amaroo but I'm not sure. At most he probably did a few steps of a dance. He never wore a mala while doing this.
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I was curious and your answers were interesting. I am glad it is a pretty place. In my opinion the premies sort of "deserve" for it to be pretty and nice because I think the premies get ripped off a lot moneywise. I guess one of the reasons I wanted to get a feel for Amaroo is that honestly it sort of has scared me to think of Rawat and premies getting isolated. It seems like when cults get isolated ( Jonestown, Waco ) bad things can happen. When I heard that the "old" ways come out, darshan, at Amaroo I also worried. It buts the premies in a position of having to deal with all this denial and double standards of who and what they are and what they believe. I think, in a way, it was mentally healthier when darshan was not a "secret" the fact that they sort of suspend reality and go back in time at Amaroo gives me a big "UH OH" feeling. I don't want to see the cult go off the deep end. Too many nice people...Rawat can leap all by himself! Did it seem weird to have posts on the official site about how Darshan was no longer practiced and misinterpeted? How did it feel? Other than techniques, I don't remember the average premie feeling they had to keep Rawats secrets. Amaroo in a way is a sort of X rating ( well PG really) but if he does darshan there is the implication that all are supposed to keep quiet about it. Very interesting. So glad you got out. I want to hear all about your first REAL vacation....that Kabir picks out and is all for Kabir!
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Susan: I've felt the feeling of isolation at Amaroo and had the distinct impression one day while driving on to the site at the 2004 program and seeing the tents that I was glad I wasn't staying on the land. I still had my independence and could leave the land when the sun went down. I never noticed the info on the offcial site about darshan no longer being given so I can't answer this question. However, I think there is a general understanding among premies not to talk to new people or aspirants about this or about much actually. Premies are only supposed to hand out invitations to intro events or give out introductory materials and not say much more. I guess new premies find out soon enough about darshan from the person who introduced them to knowledge. Real vacation! That would be great. It is a fact that I've never gone to Florida on a vacation, only to attend programs or work (twice). I am planning to go to a three day conference on cosmology in October. An opportunity to celebrate the achievements of the human mind! I've also got plenty of airline miles to use. They accumulate quickly when one travels to Australia. An idea I've been thinking about is getting together with ex-premies for an "ex meeting". How does this sound to all of you? Kabir
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I met a bunch of ex premies once in San Francisco it was really really fun. Had a great time. I have met a bunch of people over the years. Organizing get togethers is hard but very fun. I know its been done in England too.
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Susan: San Francisco would be a nice place to meet you and other ex's. Perhaps we could set a time and place if this suits you. This fall, mid to late October, would work for me. Kabir
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I am a few hours away and pretty busy ( you would not know it from all my posts lately) I need lots of warning ahead. Joe and Marianne are nearby too. I have not yet met Marianne in person and have always wanted to so that would be fun. When we set it up lets go off forum. Lots of ex's worry about premie lurkers and also ex's might come that don't want to announce themselves publically. Last time...we went our for lunch... then some had to leave. I drove Anth and a bunch of others for an impromptu tour. we went over Golden Gate...we had wine in our hotel later...and went out for dinner...it was really a whole lot of fun! Imagine a wagon load of silly ex premies touring San Fran....was a blast. I always imagine a premie spy listening in the corner...no secrets to hide anyway...but the image of one lurking is sort of funny to me! They would be jealous of all the giggling and stuff...
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Just north of Orlando, there are some great springs - you can hire a canoe and paddle down them. Google Alexander Springs - the first time we went down there, we had a close encounter with a bear ( nice, no trouble at all! ), and saw otters, turtles, gators, loads of birds, including ospreys catching fish etc. Water so clean you can stick your head in and drink. If you have just half an eye for mother nature, I'd recommend a detour to some of those springs if you can make it.
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I actually TOTALLY love WDW and will be there again....in December. I love nature too....but I do have a big place in my heart for all the shmaltz and the silliness of Mickey Mouse....way more fun than any Guru Fest ever was! You either like it or you don't...I know most adults won't admit to or just plain don't like it...but me..I have as much fun as any child there....
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Thanks Kabir.Very interesting. I notice from your promography that you only came to the UK (Brighton , I was there) once (?) ....was it the weather that put you off ?
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No the weather didn't put me off. There were no logical reasons for not going to the UK or Europe more except perhaps not wanting to spend more money soon after an Amaroo event. I still would love to see London and Paris. Kabir
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I couldnt go..at least not this year...but I know there have been what has come to be called Latvian Nights...from JHBs homeland. And I saw pictures and it looked FUN! I would love to see London and Paris too. I have not seen either.
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aha! another amateur etymologist in the house.The Oxford Concise dictionary gives its origin as the Latin word "luxus" meaning abundance, but the link below gives a little more (sordid?) detail. Was "light" your own guess, or some EV-type spin? Enjoying your posts!
Related link: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=luxury&searchmode=none
Modified by cq at Fri, Aug 25, 2006, 15:19:36
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Thanks again, I never realised you were such a recent ex, Kabir. I hope you got a decent warm welcome when you first posted. But your posts here matched so many other time-served exes in terms of righteous anger etc, I had imagined you'd been around longer than that. I am now even more curious about the eight years prior to last year's Amaroo. Assuming you are not similarly brand new to the internet, what was your take on EPO and the various forums for most of the last decade? (Forgive me if you've explained this in past posts - I haven't much time online at the moment. If you've done all this before, just ignore me and I'll shut up, take an aspirin and go to bed.) Thanks, Nige
Modified by Nigel at Thu, Aug 24, 2006, 15:21:48
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Nigel: Yes, I got a very warm welcome when I first posted. During the last decade I read the EPO a few times and discussed it with a premie friend who also read it. I guess I didn't take it too seriously at the time. My premie friend enjoyed the access to old DLM materials such as the stuff written by Shri Hans. From 1997 though 2005 I focused a lot on Amaroo as well as on attending North American programs. I also participated locally during this time period, wondering most of the time why people weren't interested in Rawat's message or why they didn't follow up once introduced. Another thing on Amaroo. Starting, I believe in 2002, premies on the darshan lines went through a security check run by hired non premies. Bags and even hats were not allowed through and metal detectors were used to check pocket contents. We were allowed to keep our shoes on. This was the opposite of darshan lines of yore where shoes were removed and security checks were less formal and premie-run. Of course, airports use both metal detectors and shoe removal in their operations. Kabir
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Hi Kabir,
I just check in every so often so haven't had a chance to say hello. I glanced at your programography and I was at most of those programs myself, (1973-2001). One minor point, I think that there was darshan at Curacao in 2001; I seem to remember this because I believe it was the next-to-last time I ever saw Rawat in person (the last was at the Phoenix donor's event right after 9/11).
Thanks for making the list. It brought back some long-buried memories.
Welcome to the real world. It's such a paradigm shift to realize that the crapp you've believed in for so long is just that. This forum is a great place to make the transition and the people here were very helpful to me when I began processing my ex'ing two summers ago.
Mary
Modified by Mary at Sun, Aug 27, 2006, 12:34:21
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Mary: There was no darshan at Curacao unless it was for a select group of big donors? that did not include me. Kabir
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What a shamelessly cheap way to fleece the public ! I might try it. Take my shoes off, sit on a chair with an all knowing look on my face and let people pay ( fiver minimum, tenner for holy breath included) to file past and kiss my feet. What d'ye think?
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Make sure to give your feet a good washing beforehand and a dab of lotus blossom perfume wouldn't hurt. Kabir
Modified by Kabir at Sun, Aug 27, 2006, 17:47:42
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I know it has affected me. If I go to a show I always want to be in the front row. I think this is a cult hangover. When I am in the middle or god forbid back of a large crowd I get feelings of unworthiness. Also, I am getting over it but I think I paid far too much attention to how people dress for a long time. On the other hand, I have an attraction to people who are decidedly NOT new agey and I admire and love people with money who dress like bums. Again...I think it is a FY to my cult experience. I also despise people who judge others based on appearance and looks....because it was done so much in the cult. I know society as a whole does it too...but I think its a pet peeve cause of cult. I think it has made me a bit of the hotel room snob I am today. I also cannot "share" well....rooms. Maybe it is who I was going to be anyway but I think the ashram made me into I must have my own room, and control over my territory. No sharing. As many years have gone by much of this has gotten better. But I never know when it will pop up. Any of you feel things like this?
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I was in a couple of childrens homes through my childhood,then boarding school,then an insane almost Heaven's Gate type ( except no suicides, although most of us became ill) unofficial ashram.By the time I reached the official ashram it was pretty relaxed and easy ( and seemed fairly private) after what had gone before.I didn't stay long though as I'd had enough. I think we all have our individual story and personality Susan.Not everything can be blamed on the cult. It's an interesting subject though and should have been a header. I ignored the elitism as it didn't fit in with my Jesus Christ version of the nollidge.
Modified by lexy at Tue, Aug 29, 2006, 05:47:21
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Good for you for ignoring the elitism. I have learned to well since those years...but I still get emotional upon seeing elitism. Yeah, sounds like ashram would be GREAT after those experiences! And thats sort of what I was asking. The unknown...who would I be and how would I think differently if I had never been a premie? For me, I think what affects my identity to this day are almost things that developed into a "neurosis" things that provoke anxiety for me. On the other hand, for a long time I tried so hard to be "normal" or whatever my concept of that was that I may have denied myself some nice things in life or made choices that were less my true self. What's true self? Still learning.
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Great question. I was certainly aware of a spiritual elitism that seemed to bleed over into the sorts of things you mention. Conforming to the cultural standard also seemed to be a requirement if one wanted to get closer to m.Along those lines, my personal curiosity is about how he distorted common spiritual concepts to serve his own needs and how my interpretation of those ideas has limited my ability to get where I want to go. I do not have much specific as an example right now, but I am questioning such basic concepts as surrender, devotion and mind/ego and how they were utilized to control as opposed to liberate. The problem is to discover what concepts are basically bankrupt and what ones have value but need to be redefined. I think the things you are talking about reflect the same sort of questioning. "Are there underlying unconscious or semiconscious assumptions about how I see the world that were created and fostered by my participation in the cult?"
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and it looks like they were different for different people. My first experiences in the cult, and the cult that "drew" me in, actually reflect a little more the values I carry to this day...there was some trying to make the world a better place, love for your fellow premies, and a feeling of inclusion of all no matter how weird or different they were. This was 1975. I think as time went on it was the ashram group I was around, and perhaps the ashram...wanna be initiator residence premie track...that influenced me. In that crowd there was the weird values of spiritual heirarchy which could be translated as ...the closer to M you are the more spiritual you are....all I wanted was to be close. The closer I got the more ugliness I saw. Passive aggressive competion...pressue to conform. For me, when the X rated posts came out...it made a LOT OF SENSE....because I was aspiring to be in that group. I can see now I never would have made it because of my idealism that people would have KNOWN I could not have coped with the hypocrisy of the residence scene. I do know of at least one early eighties premie who left soon after Xrating.... "Are there underlying unconscious or semiconscious assumptions about how I see the world that were created and fostered by my participation in the cult?" That is my question you are right. Looks like its not the same for all though.
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Hi Kabir,
Hmm...I seem to remember it, but who knows? I don't think it was for a select group of donors. In my memory, I remember a big draw of Curacao being that because it was somewhat "third world" that darshan was riskable. Or I could be confusing it with the darshan at the donor's event which was a month later.
Do we know each other? My journey is listed under M. Moore; if you want to contact me, the forum administrator should have my email address.
Best,
Mary
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