Ghi,

Thanks for hanging in there.  I have learned that the discussion between a practicing premie and an ex-premie necessarily takes a very long time to finish, if it is ever to get to the point of mutual understanding.  Only once have I talked with a premie friend and gotten to this point.  It took several phone calls and emails and letters.

As for our own present discussion, you may quit at any time, no problem.  But I see now that we could go on and on.  I will answer a few of your last points.

(1) Concerning Elan Vital and my point that they are painfully dishonest.  You only acknowledged that there are "limitations".  I think you may be unaware of how dishonest Elan Vital has been in the past seven years and how they continue to be disgracefully untruthful in a number of ways.  Their FAQ's is one example.  Their actions in regard to Jagdeo is another.  The actions of CAC is another example.  Their outright lie to the press about Rawat's residence in Brisbane.  All the little white lies about the UN, etc.  This activity has been egregious, ongoing,  and has been necessitated for them in order to protect Rawat's public image.  I think you may be a bit uninformed about the extent of this problem.

(2) The question of Rawat as living Perfect Master.  To discuss Rawat as a trusted teacher is totally off the point, as far as I am concerned..  I am only interested in discussing how Rawat presents himself and that is NOT as a trusted teacher.  No way.  Rawat presents himself as a lit person who must be followed in order to be lit.  (I am talking about the present, not the 70's).   If you and other people follow Rawat as an inspirational speaker only, then I have nothing to argue with you about that.  That is fine with me.  But Rawat has said publically how very much he hates being thought of as an inspirational speaker.

(3) Concept vs experience.  You and I do not differ in experience, only in concept.  To practice Knowledge does require the acceptance of a concept.  This is one of several ironies in Rawat's teaching.  Another is the belief that Knowledge is not a belief.  Another is the constant harping on the point that Knowledge is not a religion, when in fact it is a religion.

(4) Rawat's ability to tap into truth and beauty and to manifest it.  I am afraid that what Rawat manifests is his own supreme confidence in his superiority.  Although there may be a few thousand people like you in Western countries who can stomach Rawat's approach, most people are quite put off by it.  I remember how sick it made my father when he tried to understand my involvement with Rawat.  Why is this?  Because Rawat makes a mistake when he allows himself to be considered above the human ego.  Same mistake with Gangaji.  There is something very different in your viewpoint and my viewpoint.  As I have said before, it is possible to pinpoint this difference.  You are an iconist and I am an iconoclast.  I accept no human representatives of the divine.  I think it is sick.  Over and out.