.......second rant muddled and contradictory.However Pat , I think I have often felt the same. I have very fond memories of the friends I made whilst a premie.....in no way do I consider them liars or insincere.....just brainwashed ( often from their formative years ) and deluded ,like I was.I really don't want to hurt them and diss them and cause them pain.

I  had many joyful times as a premie and blissful experiences but this has to be balanced against the pain , confusion and disruption to my thinking processes and my life.

I am grateful to the Ex-Premie-Org website  for , at last, telling it like it is concerning Prem Rawat and the knowledge; for cutting through the web of lies and deceit which is spun so subtly that IMO those who serve their Master in spinning it have no idea ( consciously) what they are doing.

I looked again at the " Passages " clips......which I must have first seen ( I now remember) at Nottingham.....All the squirming with discomfort while waiting for the " inspiration" to " speak from the heart " is so plainly captured ( especially in the Ron Geaves clips ).......the state of denial ( and occasionally downright duplicity) just leaps from the screen from all the participants in the video.

At the same time , I remember sometimes behaving just like Joan Apter and feeling a wonderful upwelling of devotion and gratitude.It's nice to know that this depth of experience ( no matter what the catalyst ) exists within me.

Personally, I don't like to see premies attacked over-heavily on this forum.......but it's fantastic to have the freedom to doubt and say what the hell we like.....and dress-up as devils and dance around with pitchforks and show our bums defiantly to the crock of illusion and lies that we swallowed for so long and which originated from the very top,  Mr Rawat himself. 

So thanks John for EPO and all your help and Patrick for telling like it is for you.