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Andries,
And you're losing the propagation war, if you haven't already lost it. And, Andries, EPO and this forum aren't about spreading propaganda, I hope you understand that. But, I'm glad you cleared up why you post here. Thank you, because I've been wondering. As I see it you have a couple of reasons, one is to gather information for the Wikipedia articles and the other is to further understand your own personal involvement with the Sai Baba cult. I'd like to address a couple of things you said. 1. I still edit the Prem Rawat articles at Wikipedia where people are excessively skeptical of everything and every source that is even slightly negative of Prem Rawat. By being excessively skeptical here, I prepare myself for that.
From my point of view, Andries, the topic of this forum is not the Wikipedia articles at all. Personally, I certainly will never endorse them as any reliable source of information. From time to time the articles come up as a subject here, but EPO and this forum have nothing to do with the Wiki articles and don't endorse their contents, quite the contrary. Those Wiki articles are filled with lies. To me, those articles have been a lost cause for a long time in terms of telling the truth about Rawat's cult. Forum 8 is not about the Wiki propaganda wars, Andries. I'm not going to assist you with your Wiki efforts. Ex-premies come here to talk about their involvement with the Rawat cult. There's no side-mission to support your personal efforts on Wiki, that I'm aware of.
2. I am in the middle of a propaganda war about Rawat with contradicting opinions and interpretations and sometimes I sincerly don't know whom or what to believe. Though I cannot seriously doubt that Rawat is unreliable and that the DLM has harmed some people but it would unfair to current students if I believed the ex-premies uncritically.
I think this issue has been discussed both here and on the Wiki talk pages at great length in the past. I don't think it's appropriate at all for you to bring your propaganda wars with Rawat's "current students" here. I don't like it, but others can speak for themselves about this and I hope that they do. The reason I don't like it is because the nature of your questions often implies (and sometimes directly states) that ex-premies are dishonest and not credible.
Andries, my opinion of how Wiki articles are written (NPOV) remains the same as it was several months ago. In my opinion, it's a very flawed method of information-gathering and a horrible method of writing. I don't put much stock in Wikipedia as a source of any accurate information about anything -- I've said this before. I wouldn't refer anyone to Wikipedia if they were looking for factual information about any topic. Btw, I don't want this conversation to become a debate about Wiki, because your involvement with Wiki is your preference and your personal choice. So, the way I see it, Andries, is that some people like to write on Wikipedia as a sort of hobby and I don't consider it to be a serious source of information about anything -- especially Prem Rawat and his cult.
Plus, there isn't very much in those articles that is accurate at all, I don't see that changing. I suppose that because you are involved in writing them, I see you as part of the problem, even though I know you have fought to include the ex-premie voice there. IMO, the articles should all be scrapped with complete rewrites. Additionally, I personally don't like the feeling of being your research subject here -- it makes me feel uncomfortable and I often get a terrible feeling about that. It's probably why I've been rude to you lately.
But, I don't have any other way of convincing you of those Wiki inaccuracies other than to tell you that here, which I have very often. I'm tired of doing that, Andries. I have honestly become very weary of and enormously frustrated by trying to get you to understand that I don't lie and that the exes who post here aren't lying about our past time in the cult, either. Your "excessive-skepticism" as you put it now borders on the insulting, IMO.
Getting the truth out about Prem Rawat and his cult is far more important than Wikipedia, so I do get curt and snippy with you because I don't have a lot of time to be addressing your wiki article issues, but at the same time I feel you need to be set straight about the facts -- which you often get wrong. That's very frustrating and it angers me, as I'm sure you've seen by the way I've been responding to you lately: rudely and abruptly. I've tried it all ways, polite and nice, courteous and civil, all ways -- and I just can't seem to get through to you that what you read here and on EPO is the truth -- the articles on Wiki are blatantly innacurate and I'm not interested in being your research subject and I never gave you permission to treat me as your research subject and I don't remember you ever asking for my permission for the same.
The purpose of this forum is not to ensure that those Wiki articles are accurate anyway. Any ex-premie is free to become an editor there, and some have with miserable results.
I apologize for my tone of voice and my rudeness towards you lately, and thank others here for pointing it out.
One more thing. Don't you think it would be more beneficial if you started a forum for ex-sai-baba folks? I was looking at your websites this morning and there seem to be plenty of former members -- enough at least to form your own discussion group. It seems to me, like with this forum, that it would much more more beneficial for you and those people to talk amongst yourselves about your particular cult issues, and etc.
Cynthia
Modified by Cynthia at Wed, Feb 23, 2005, 09:00:02
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